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Evo-ERP and DBA Classic >> RTM Reports & Editing >> All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
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Message started by deburr on 02/04/09 at 14:34:59

Title: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by deburr on 02/04/09 at 14:34:59

I'm trying to learn how to use the report writer and it occurs to me that there may be some great wealth of knowledge that might be shared by the masters... Would be great to have one area to find info on modifying RTM's.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kkmfg on 02/04/09 at 14:52:04

This sounds like an excellent use of the wiki.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by GasGiant on 02/04/09 at 16:21:47

Excellent, yes... but who will start the HOWTO article? We seem to have a dearth of writers. :-/

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by deburr on 02/05/09 at 06:13:29

My first thought was the wiki also but I don't know if it would work as good as the forum for getting answers to specific questions. It would be a great place for someone to write a general article.

My thought for having a separate subject on the forum is that RTMs will pertain to every module for everyone going forward as classic completely transitions to EVO-ERP.

The help that comes with the report writer, doesn't make sense to us non-programmer types. We rely on Crystal Reports to get what we what we can't get with pre-configured RTMs. The help that comes with Crystal is written at a level that is understandable to the common computer user. I think there will be a lot of questions using Report Writer depending on the skill level of the user.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by GasGiant on 02/05/09 at 06:46:23

This work into my current project a bit. I need to add a forum section and I would like to reorder some things at the same time, mostly to put Problem Reports near the top. On that note, here is my first pass at reordering this "Evo-ERP and DBA Classic" section:

User Polls
EvoERP Flash Videos
Problem Reports - Repeatable
Problem Reports - Sporadic
Manufacturing
Items
Sales
Accounting
Systems Manager
Payroll
Bar Code & Hand Held Interface
Evo Menu & Evo~ERP
RTM Reports Editing
Evo2Web Extension
Installation
Suggestions for Updates
General Topics
Local User Groups
IS Tech Symposium & Training
Program Offerings
Jobs
Source Code & Programming in TAS

I would move the EziJobs/Next Gen forum to the "General" section, since it is neither DBA nor Evo. Thoughts?

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by deburr on 02/05/09 at 13:31:35

Looks good to me.

Do you know of anywhere that I can get help now? I went to the ADDSUM TAS website but that didn't help. I looking for some basic information to start modifying RTMs by adding summary fields or just trying to understand the capabilities or limitations of the process so I don't waste time trying to make an RTM that is impossible and should really put the effort into a Crystal Report. I looking for some prose as apposed to a list of definitions or functions that is in the help file.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by GasGiant on 02/05/09 at 13:46:42

Allen (NovaZyg) and Michel (JEMM) are the only two resources I know. I struggle through a few simple changes to RTMs, but mostly I bypass them and make browser-based reports.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by NovaZyg on 02/05/09 at 13:58:28

The way the Digital Metaphors Report Builder (RTM's) are designed into TASPRO 7 it is not a report writer, it is more of a Report Template for Printing. There are a lot of things the full Report Designer can do, but as it is implemented you can only add fields to an existing layout, no calculations or summary fields. So my suggestion to you is to design your own with Crystal in this case.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by deburr on 02/05/09 at 14:31:10

Thanks Allen

I have been hunting around and I think I found a pretty good learning system at:

http://www.digital-metaphors.com/download/learning_reportbuilder.html

I'm going to give that a try. At least I will probably learn what I can't do so I don't waste time. The 125 Page PDF is written so the common man can understand. Looks pretty good at first glance.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by EMI Ann on 02/24/09 at 13:53:17

YES! But more than a topic section, I would like to see an improved report writer system in DBA/Evo. NO-ONE should have to buy Crystal or any other product. RTM modifications allow you to change the appearance of a report, but not it's actual sort stack architecture. The user defined reports are also limited, because of the way the primary sorts are categorized and pre-selected for you. I actually have an ancient, ancient DOS invoice program that, while it doesn't do anything but stuff directly related to invoices, has a great report design system. Within each section, such as receivables, shipping, backlog, etc., it has a list of all the data fields, with a chart sort of layout that allows you to choose which items you want to include, the primary and secondary sort order orders, and what order you want the stuff to appear in. Then, when you get the report the way you like, you get to save it with the name you want. You can design something like up to 10 reports in each of 10 categories. This would be awesome in DBA/Evo, and could possibly make it more appealing to more people. If anyone who is in a position to write the code to put it into DBA/Evo would like me to email the program to them to play with, let me know. It is an ancient "MySoftware" thing, MyProductInvoices, version 1.0.1.
Thanks for continuing to make DBA/Evo better all the time!
Ann Luce

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kkmfg on 02/25/09 at 14:50:10

I'm no huge fan of the built in report editor either. Not the single greatest piece of code ever written. But, it seems to work well enough for the most part.

For those things that it does not do there is obviously Crystal Reports. For those of us who dont' want to pay for CR there are programs like

OpenRPT:
http://www.xtuple.com/openrpt

JasperReports:
http://jasperforge.org/plugins/project/project_home.php?group_id=102

OpenReports:
http://oreports.com/

And the list goes on. Actually, Jasper is embeddable but it's JAVA and I'm not too sure how easy it is to extend TAS with thirdparty code.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by GasGiant on 02/26/09 at 06:14:40

There is also the (gasp) MS tool that most people already have: Excel. Most of our financial reporting is done in Excel by choice. Our CFO starts with the Evo numbers and then gets all kinds of creative with things in Excel.

The report editor for RTMs that we have in Evo is really more of a forms editor. Good for changing layout, setting up boilerplate, etc., but the actual report is a pre-programmed, canned affair. If you really want custom RTMs then IS Tech offers that service.

Then there are geeks like me who prefer to live in the triple dubya world and just write web apps with custom reporting :-X

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kkmfg on 02/26/09 at 07:15:27

Well, we don't have Microsoft Office nor do I plan to ever purchase it. If I could get Evo and Worldship to reliably run in WINE it would be bye bye windows. I'm not about to be named MS's MVP of the year.

But, the OpenOffice spreadsheet program works pretty much the same. I don't really like spreadsheets though.

Doing web based forms can be good too. This also has the built in advantage of allowing for remote viewing if one were so inclined. But PHP wasn't really designed for such a use... I've done a bunch of PHP coding and it seems like using it for tons of reporting could create a heap of hard to read code. Not to mention that the combo between HTML and PHP has got to be harder to modify than a form based report system like CR or Jasper.

I think that a mixture of web based reporting and form based printed reports is the way to go. Some things lend themselves to a web based approach and some things to a form based report. I have not used JasperReports but it looks interesting and I wonder if maybe it's a good free alternative to CR.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kevind on 02/26/09 at 09:03:51

I have always used Crystal Reports since we already have it.
However, since version 8, they removed the Compiled reports option that worked really well
for me when I needed to supply someone with easy to run report at their workstation.

Well, I just re-discovered "Report Manager (http://reportman.sourceforge.net/index.html)".
WOW :o , this product has really matured.

It includes a visual report designer and easy ODBC connectivity.
Configurable Report Parameters, Dynamic parameter lookup, expression evaluator (like crystal formulas).

It also includes a Report Compiler that generates an .exe that encapsulates the report!!! Yea!!

This .exe could be directly called by the EVO menu, or could be included as a menu item in the classic menu
by using THIS (http://www.evoerpwiki.com/index.php?title=USER_Contributions#DBA_utility_for_running_Non-DBA_Programs)utility on the Wiki.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kkmfg on 02/26/09 at 10:00:31

kevind wrote:

Well, I just re-discovered "Report Manager (http://reportman.sourceforge.net/index.html)".
WOW :o , this product has really matured.

Interesting! It also has Delphi components. TAS is written in Delphi so maybe that would aid in getting the two to work together.

It seems like there are a lot of good choices out there.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by EMI Ann on 03/04/09 at 08:12:11

Well, Golly, I guess I am not making my point very well. We should not have to go outside of Evo to write reports based on Evo data. We should not have to learn or buy or set up or export to another piece of software to do what a powerful system like Evo should already be able to do. We should have a report writer within each module that allows us to take any of the data fields pertinent to that module and create/customize/save the reports we want using the sort orders and supporting data fields we want, excluding what we don't want. I want the process to be simple, like choosing pieces of candy from a Whitman Sampler by using the box lid. Does it sound like I want the moon? It shouldn't, because I experienced an excellent writer in a 1991 DOS sales order/invoice program (which I'll share with anyone who wants a look), and if it was possible to that extent then, what marvelous things could be done now? Even if it were to just ape the writer in that old one, I think we'd all be writing our own reports in nuthin' flat, and tickled pink with the results. That's my point. Make a good, easy-to-use report writer (not merely an appearance modifier) part of Evo.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by GasGiant on 03/04/09 at 08:47:37

There are probably 60 modules into which you'd need to tie, several hundred fields, then a form editor, plus the time to duplicate the current reports in the new system. Yes, it does sound a bit ambitious.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by kkmfg on 03/04/09 at 09:52:53

Anything like that could be done one module at a time so it's not as terrible an ordeal as you might suggest... on that front. However, I've seen TAS and I'm a member of the TAS list and forum. Quite frankly I wouldn't think TAS is up to the task at all. Also, writing a decent report system isn't that easy either. So it's not so bad on one front and bad on two others.

Now, maybe something like Jasper could be embedded within Evo to do what EMI Ann wants. It's pretty feature rich and mature. But it would require being able to use the Delphi underpinnings and TAS extension capabilities to embed Jasper. Can it be done? I don't know. Personally, I wouldn't trust TAS to take housesit a dead dog. Maybe I'm just a programming language elitist...

I think the best bet would be to find an open source reporting system and come up with some sort of EVO-izer to make it custom fit to Evo. Then tie it as tightly as possible to Evo. This, however, requires someone to do this and also keep the underlying open source report system up to date while still maintaining the evo link. Any takers on that one?

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by deburr on 03/04/09 at 13:40:40

In reply to Ann, I don't disagree, but I would just like to mention that DBA understood that short coming of not having reports that exactly met all the user needs years ago. They made a deal with Crystal reports and offered a custom DBA version for a steeply reduced price. That is how I came to my version of Crystal reports. It does what you need with a relatively short learning curve. The bigger problem is learning where all the data is.

The problem I have with using Crystal reports is, it is run outside of EvoERP, and it would be nice to be able to run those reports through a menu item in the EVO interface.

Not than any of this helps you out, but I just wanted to mention that they did at one time offer a report writer.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by NovaZyg on 03/04/09 at 15:38:52

If you are compiling your Crystal Reports to an EXE. You can add them to your Evo Menu... Evo Menu can call RUN, RWN, and EXE

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by EMI Ann on 03/05/09 at 07:49:46

Wow! Such a firestorm I've started! Admittedly, I don't know the quirks of TAS - a code poet I am not. I do agree with the one module at a time thing, and finding what info lives where is the hard part for the user. However, there is already a partial build on a customizable report writing program in S-SO-O-J and in S-SA-M. The architecture already exists in system. When you use those writers, though, you are given a short list of primary sort parameters that were selected by whomever using whatever logic path had been agreed upon at the time. Open that up wider, and let the users select what they want from the get-go. Imagine, if you will, a page of columns and rows. First column lists perhaps 25 fields ( a number I pulled out of my nose). Some are data fields such as PO number, some are optionables such as date brackets. Second column lets you put an X next to the one you want to have be the primary sort parameter. Third column lets you put an X next to the one you want to be the second sort parameter. Fourth column lets you choose print order on the report by entering numbers in the rows of the fields you want. Maybe you'll want 9 items on one report, and 6 on another. You get to choose. Test run, selecting portrait or landscape format. Tweak, save and name. Since there are already reports in Evo that are "written in stone" as well as semi-customizable ones, the machinery for sorting and compiling the data is already there. To use a manufacturing analogy, the bowl feeders and chutes are already there. Let us fill the bowls we want with what we want and point the chutes where we want them to go. Glad to see such lively conversation on this topic! Ideas are the seeds from which great things grow.

Title: Re: All in favor of a catagory for Report Writer
Post by Lynn_Pantic on 03/05/09 at 08:51:40

If you start with SA-M/N or the clones SO-O-J/K, there is already a User Defined Sort option that allows you to select up to 10 different sort and sub-sort fields and, since it is an RTM based report, in Evo you can edit the RTM and put whatever columns on the report you want from any of the files that are open which would include the order/invoice, customer, and on the detail reports, inventory. IN-H, AP-J and AR-J offer the same capability for inventory, vendor and customer lists to edit the RTM and change the columns, and while they do not have the sort and subsort User Defined options there are a number of selection options on the main screen. We recently (since the 12/21 update) released an Evo RTM version of PR-I to allow for the same kind of flexibility in payroll. Also, since they are RTM report, you can send them to Excel and then manipulate further.

Make sure your Evo menu is calling T6INH.RUN (IN-H), T7APJ.RWN (AP-J) and T7ARG.RWN (AR-G) and email me if you would like a copy of the payroll report.