ISTech Support Forum - Bug tracking system

Kelloggs

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Bug tracking system
09/22/08 at 10:44:55

"A bug tracking system is a software application that is designed to help quality assurance and programmers keep track of reported software bugs in their work."

Months ago, a "Bug Tracking System" was mention by either ISTECH or the Forum users. I still thinking that it is a great idea.

So what happen?

Here is one of the best tracking System (According to Sourceforge anyways)

http://www.mantisbt.org/

Requierements (All of them are need it to run YaBB)

PHP 5.2.0 and higher
MySQL database 4.1.1 and higher (MS SQL, DB2, and PostgreSQL are also supported).
Web server (Apache, IIS, etc

Cost

Free

Kelloggs

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kkmfg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #1 - 09/22/08 at 10:52:06

Actually, YaBB runs under PERL not PHP. Also, it uses flat files not a MySQL database.

However, the hosting provider does support PHP and MySQL so neither is a problem.

I'm also the one that originally brought the topic up. And I still do want to see it. I think that it has the potential to better communicate bugs to the developers and progress on squashing those bugs to the users.

I believe that GasGiant was going to work on getting a homebrew system of his up for use as a bug tracker for EvoERP. I, of course, am not the correct person to answer questions about that.

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Collin
K & K Manufacturing, Inc

EvoERP Version 1-22-10 SP3
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kkmfg Senior Member Ghost of the code Posts: 411 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #2 - 09/22/08 at 10:53:31 Quote from Kelloggs on 09/22/08 at 10:44:55: " So what happen? Oh, and... Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb. If any of you get that I'll be impressed.
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Kelloggs Active Member Do crazy people know they are crazy? Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #3 - 09/22/08 at 11:04:57 The bottom line is that it is a good idea, and ISTECH should reconsider it. Kelloggs
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GasGiant Administrator How can I help? Posts: 1523 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #4 - 09/22/08 at 11:44:15 It is still on the table. My last post on the idea is here: http://www.istechforum.com/YaBB.pl?num=1201182565/12#12
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Kelloggs Active Member Do crazy people know they are crazy? Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #5 - 09/22/08 at 12:16:28 That post was started 8 months ago. Another 8 months on the table?
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GasGiant Administrator How can I help? Posts: 1523 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #6 - 09/22/08 at 16:22:39 Well, with only a few of us around the table, and with no money on the table, I would not call it a high priority, even though it is well worth doing. Keep that wheel squeaky
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Kelloggs Active Member Do crazy people know they are crazy? Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #7 - 09/23/08 at 08:12:20 If it is a matter of money and resources, Our company can do it. I can buy the domain/hosting and set up the software. Kelloggs
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NovaZyg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #8 - 09/23/08 at 08:28:07

It is not the money, it is the time and resources. We all agree it is a Great idea, and we would all benefit from it. But none of us have the time to maintain it. Bugs need to be logged and verified. Most bugs are not where the user reports them. Users will tell us they can't post a Sales order SO-G.. most of the time that is a symptom. The bug is really in SO-A when the order was entered. So it takes time to track and verify these issues. We can't just let the users enter what they think are bugs, we would need a person devoted to the task of verifying bugs and being able to reproduce it. Then that bug could be added to the bug list and handed over to programming with an explanation on how to reproduce it. That is a resource that we don't have at this time.

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Allen Landry
Evo~ERP

EvoERP and DBA Classic always Beta's of the Latest versions.

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kkmfg Senior Member Ghost of the code Posts: 411 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #9 - 09/23/08 at 08:32:39 Aaggghhhhrrrrmm.... Well... aren't we starting to see that certain people weren't so dumb and off base when they suggested to open the source code to paying customers. Maybe, just maybe it would open the door toward some help with bug tracking. Now, if I could only remember who suggested that many times over the past 5 years....
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Kelloggs Active Member Do crazy people know they are crazy? Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #10 - 09/23/08 at 09:17:59 If you dont mind my asking, how do you track your bugs? Kelloggs
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NovaZyg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #11 - 09/23/08 at 10:56:07

Currently we have a list of bugs, that come from this forum and from customer complaints to Tech support. We try to duplicate them. and if we can then we try to fix them. There are some that we know are bugs but we can't duplicate and those are much much harder to fix. For example UMC reported a problem with APC and that it sometimes is missing the APINVT record and one side of the GL posting. There have been a few others who report this happening to them too, but not many maybe 3 others. So it is some configuration or circumstances that we can not duplicate here so it is much harder to catch this bug.. But we have sent out a special version to the users who have complained of this error, that tracks lines of code and generates an audit file.. I did this about 2 weeks ago and I have had no feedback...

Most bugs that we can duplicate are emailed to programming and we fix them right away if we can, then they get sent to the person(s) who complained about them. The rest of the users get them with the next update, or if they have the same issue or request to be sent the fix we do so.

So our current bug list is really kept here on the forum, and through email reports to the programmers by tech support.

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Allen Landry
Evo~ERP

EvoERP and DBA Classic always Beta's of the Latest versions.

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Kelloggs Active Member Do crazy people know they are crazy? Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #12 - 09/23/08 at 11:20:08 Allen, I see your point now, but I still thinking that a bug tracking system is need it. I have said that to you and Lynn many times, and I would say it again, if there anything we can do to help please let us know. Kelloggs
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kkmfg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #13 - 09/23/08 at 17:13:55

Quote from Kelloggs on 09/23/08 at 11:20:08:

Allen,

I see your point now, but I still thinking that a bug tracking system is need it.

I have said that to you and Lynn many times, and I would say it again, if there anything we can do to help please let us know.

Tongue

Kelloggs

Yes, I once again second this request. I would like a more transparent bug tracker at some point in the not so distant future.

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Collin
K & K Manufacturing, Inc

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GasGiant Administrator How can I help? Posts: 1523 Gender:	Re: Bug tracking system Reply #14 - 09/24/08 at 05:21:05 Sounds like you two have it covered. One less thing for me to lose sleep over
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kkmfg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #15 - 09/24/08 at 08:42:34

Quote from GasGiant on 09/24/08 at 05:21:05:

Sounds like you two have it covered. One less thing for me to lose sleep over

Yeah... You see... I would setup a bug tracker for ISTech tomorrow if I thought that they were going to start using it right then.

They seem to indicate that they, however, do not have the resources to maintain a public facing bug tracker. So setting one up does no good if it's not going to be used.

I'm not entirely opposed to waiting until you get the time to setup what you had talked about doing. That is, if they'll use it. The bug tracker needn't take anywhere near the amount of time to maintain as it takes to debug. It's pretty straight forward really... Bugs are added in an unconfirmed state. The programmers or QA people or whoever check to see if it's really a bug. If so they change the status to confirmed. When they fix it they update the status to fixed. The initial bug reports can even be done by the users. That's how practically ever other tracker I've ever seen works. You give as much detailed info as you can when you report. Some bugs will be marked as non bugs. Existing software already does all of this and more. Evo is not so different from any other software package. This all works on many, many other projects. I've seen projects with one programmer have a bug tracker. How else can the end users and the developers be on the same page?

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Collin
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GasGiant

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #16 - 09/24/08 at 09:31:42

As I mentioned, I like and use bug tracking software and I usually roll my own. I have three separate projects with separate tracking systems. They don't take up a lot of my time, but then I don't have anywhere near the number of users.

As Allen has outlined, this forum (along with direct requests) acts as the input end of his tracking system. Once bugs are verified they are nearly complete. So, the only missing link is the part where you show a list of bugs that have not been verified yet. Where things break down is in verifying bugs. It is work and requires a good deal of product knowledge at times. I'm all for having a list that volunteers could work on, but this forum works well as an initial place to post your problems and it should continue that way. So I don't think that asking users to enter their questions on a bug list is the way to go. It might be better for someone (or two or three) to take things from here that do not get solved right away and add them to a "to be verified" list.

Whatever is done, if it does not add value for both the user and the programmers... probably a waste of time at best.

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Lynn_Pantic

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #17 - 09/24/08 at 09:36:46

Colin & Collin -

Allen and I are putting together a list of the things we generally need when a bug is reported. We will send that to you and, if you can put something together, we will try to use it and see how it works out. One thing that needs to be determined is where on the website to put the link to the bug tracker (I would suggest www.istechsupport.com/status.php so people can check to see if a patch has already been posted before reporting a problem) and whether some sort of login would be required to report and/or see the status of prior reports. I know these points have been raised previously in this and other threads but if we are really going to do this, we need to decide.

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Lynn Pantic
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kkmfg

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Re: Bug tracking system
Reply #18 - 09/24/08 at 12:14:50

Cool... And the forum has been a decent place for bug posting but I really do think that the only truly organized and thorough way to go about it is to use a more formal bug tracker. Forums tend to be messy and it's hard to really see which issues are really issues, which are still outstanding, etc from looking at a forum index. A bug tracker, even if it is not one that most users would use, is still an easier place to go for concise answers.

So, it's cool that ISTech is willing to give it a try. I hope it works out. If not, well... I can be wrong from time to time. I do think it's definately worth a shot though!

As for the lingering questions: If people think that the forum is easiest to report problems to (and it appears such is the case) then it would probably be best to have logins for the bug tracker and have a few people be responsible for adding content and a very few people be responsible for updating the status of reports. This also makes bug reports more consistent and reliable as they'll be input by people who have more experience in doing so. Everyone could still view the page to see what is out there. Sometimes you get an error and you want to know if it's reported or not and if it's fixed. You very well might be able to find that info on the forum but I believe it will be at least a little easier to get such information from a bug tracker.

It also allows for a sort of double edged sword. It shows the progress that the application in question is making - good or bad. If there are 300 open bug reports and 10 things fixed then that's bad. But if there are 1000 total bugs over a span of 5 years and 990 of them are fixed then that's good. Some people might see the # of bugs reported and be shocked in a bad way but others might see that bugs tend to get squashed in X number of days and find that to be a good sign. It really could go either way.

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Collin
K & K Manufacturing, Inc

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